i played three courses today

[broncofan_27]

me and a buddy started in ingleside this morning, the second hole, my disc got stuck in a tree, then on 13 i threw it in the water, my disc never goes to the right but it found the water and sunk. my buddy let me borrow one of his though, im not good enough to have the bag with 20 discs in it, but next time im at ingleside ill have more than 5 for sure. that course was not designed for a beginner thats for sure. then we went to guth park, loved it easy to navigate for the most part finding 17 was tricky but it was a fun course, then we fought the rain for another 18 at lamar. that damn ingleside course is hard, anyone that is good there is too damn good at this sport. i want to keep playing to make myself better though.

[sturmgeist]

Wow, if you played 3 courses in one day, and the last 18 in the rain, I'd say you must be hooked already. Don't worry, none of us are good enough for the bags with 20 discs in them, lol, it's all for show. On average, I make at least 40% of all the shots in a single day with ONE disc, my putter. USE a putter!

Too many new players never get out of the mindset of using a driver to putt with - instead they get accurate at short range with a driver. All in all, it's good to be accurate with a driver at short ranges, but they cannot effectively replace the role of a putter. Learn to make your putter fly in different ways, and apply what you learn there to faster discs. If you can learn to make a putter take a hard left turn, or skip it off the ground(don't do that on a surface that will shred it) or sidearm it with a right curve, then you can do those things with any other disc, you just have to increase your arm speed and and power accordingly. Playing with slower discs will teach you technique first, while learning with high speed drivers will develop bad habits.

For you, just starting out, I wouldn't go with any driver faster than a Polaris LS. This is a good selection of discs that you should look at as a learner set. I'm not suggesting you try and get each type, one driver, one midrange and one putter will be plenty, and if you can discipline yourself to learn with just a midrange and putter before throwing a driver in the mix, even better.

Long Drivers:
Polaris LS
Leopard
Cheetah
Gazelle

Midrange Drivers:
Cobra
Stingray
Panther
Shark
Aurora MS

Putters:
Aero
Aviar Putt and Approach
Omega Supersoft
Magnet
Birdie

Lighter weight discs will help you throw farther and force you to use correct technique. It can be frustrating at first because they seem less forgiving, but over time, it's to your benefit. I recommend 150 class(150grams and under) drivers if you can find them. Just like with throwing putters, if you can control a 150g disc in different conditions, then you can make heavier discs do whatever you want too.

My ideal starter combo would be a Cobra and a putter. Cobras are good at short range and even though they're older slower discs, once you learn them, you can get a LOT of distance from them. It's a great disc to teach you form and angles. Putters are hard to recommend. The feel of the disc in your hand is, to me, of the utmost importance. It doesn't matter how well a disc flies, if it doesn't feel right in the hand, you won't be able to throw it well. For me, this goes for all discs, not just putters, but it's especially important with putters. The Aviar, Aero, Omega, and Magnet putters are all very similarly shaped, the biggest differnce being that the aero has a larger diameter. They're the putters I would advise you to look at. But if you're good with a frisbee, then a putter like the Birdie, which is very frisbee-like in shape, could be a good choice for you. I'd recommend putters in the 165-170 range, since lighter weights are thrown about by the wind a lot(but can be very useful in certain situations) and heavier weights will be harder for you to reach the basket with.

Keep it simple at first, then when you are shooting well with your starter set, look into getting a faster driver like a Valkyrie, JLS, or Sidewinder. Then add a Roc(or Wasp) for a midrange, considered by many to be the most important disc in production - pinpoint accurate, but not the most beginner friendly. Easy disc to learn once you get the hang of things though.

If you happen to head through the golden triangle area, make sure you post up, you'll be able to catch a round with someone who can show you the course layouts.

[broncofan_27]

im definately hooked, i had a valkerie but thats the one that got lost in the lake, i bought that and the birdie putter for my first discs, i started using the putter more and more and have already started feeling alot more confident from 30 ft. and in. the day i lost the valkerie we went to academy and i got the JLS 172g, and i really like it, and a banshee 152g. but it was hard to tell which one i liked more cause i threw mostly with the jls and in the windy rainy conditions it wasnt a real good test day. at lamar i missed about a 65 ft. approach with the putter, so just for shits and giggle i threw the banshee at it and sunk it, so that gave me a little hope. i took my fiance out the other day and we got her a aerobie epic, she liked it cause it was purple, and i thought it kinda looked cool, then we got out to the course and i noticed that one side flanges alot wider than the other, not a big fan of throwing that one, but i read that it was a tomohawk thrower??? i think ill stick with the RHBH approach for now.

[chessguy]

Ingleside is TOUGH!!! disc-eating trees! I didn't get a chance to play Lamar or West Guth. I stumbled upon West Guth. It's wide open, right? creek

[broncofan_27]

ya west guth is pretty much wide open, trees in just the right spots. its not a real hard course if your decent, which im not. so it was challenging for me, but they also have two different launch sites for each hole, we started out not knowing that and played the first couple holes from the "hey look at me i can throw a disc a long damn ways, and make it do what i want it to" launch sites. then we decided we are not near ready for that kinda thing yet. finding some of the holes was a little tricky for us never seeing a layout, or never being being there before, but i liked it alot.

[sturmgeist]

Yeah, the epic is NOT beginner friendly. It's the most sensitive disc there is because of it's shape. And it's the most uncomfortable shape - the narrowest part of the disc is STILL wider than any other disc made. I used to throw one for over-the-water shots, since they float, but then I realized other discs were easier to control and KEEP from going in the drink. The Banshee is going to be a hard left fade, DON'T get used to throwing it just yet, it's what you call overstable, and is the sort of disc that will develop bad habits when you're learning.

Stable is the tendency of a disc to take a straight flight path - the JLS is STABLE
Understable is the tendency of a disc to take a right turn when thrown right hand backhand. Valkyries are understable when thrown with the power they require. Overstable is the tendency of a disc to go left even under the highest power throws. You want to stay away from overstable discs as much as possible till you learn good form, because at your level, most all discs will tail off left in an overstable manner, so you don't need one that does it so blatantly just yet. Your JLS has a little higher power requirement than you can probably meet right now, but it's not too bad, stick with that as your driver, since it's just stable, you'll eventually be able to make it turn either right or left, or keep straight. I've been playing over a year and I'm still trying to break myself of the bad habits I learned using an Epic and other discs when i started.

The Valkyrie will be a great driver for you in a couple months time. It still holds the world distance record at 820 feet, and it's quite accurate when thrown at lower speeds. But STICK with your putter. if you find the Birdie isn't for you, try an Aviar or Omega - but the birdie is great in ways because you can run hard at the basket and it'll fall close without blowing so far past. It's very susceptible to wind though, as you probably learned.

The best thing you could do though, is to go get a Cobra or one of those other midranges I talked about. it doesn't make sense, but you will be able to throw those(right now) further than you can throw a high speed driver, because they require less power and speed to complete their natural flight path. Innova STILL lists the Cobra as a Fairway driver even. Get a midrange that is comfortable to you, and learn with it instead of those other discs. Once you've got the midrange down and can make it do what you want, then put your JLS in the mix to reach the longer holes. Do that, and you will get better MUCH faster than you would otherwise.

[broncofan_27]

cool, thanks for the advice man. i actually throw the jls better than any other disc ive tried yet. and i love the birdie except in high winds, and here in corpus that is just about all the time. i think next time i go i will throw with my mid range, the innova banshee 152g so that i can try to get used to throwing different discs and getting practice with them. thanks for all the input i was wondering what the stable, understable, and overstable was talking about. i have another question, when i throw just about any disc i have tried so far about 1/4 way into the flight it will wobble then smooth out and fly smoothly what causes that, bad release, wrong form???

[chessguy]

when i throw just about any disc i have tried so far about 1/4 way into the flight it will wobble then smooth out and fly smoothly what causes that, bad release, wrong form???

Yep, but I'm sure Will will line you out! :smile: What's your grip like?

[broncofan_27]

ill try to describe my grip, thumb on top obviously, my pointer middle and ring finger all under the ridge inside the disc, and my pinky just kinda does its own thing and hangs out. ive had the best luck with accuracy this way. i almost had two hole in ones today at guth, number 8 and number 14 both were really close the one on 14 actually ended up hitting the pole at the bottom of the basket, easy birdie though i was excited.

[sturmgeist]

Well HELL YEAH! Already makin ace runs! You're gonna be a quick learner for sure. Go to discgolfreview.com and read as much of the instructional articles as you can stand.

As for grip, certain types of grips are much more powerful than others, and some sacrifice power for accuracy. Most people will tell you that you NEED to use the 4 finger power grip, which is where all four fingers are under the rim with the fingertips or the pads tightly gripping the inside rim itself. That's not important. What's important is that you find a grip that is both comfortable and effective. Discgolfreview.com has a gallery in their article "The Ins and Outs of Grip" that will help you find one you like.

For backhand throws, I use two grips. My main power grip is something I came up with on my own - I've never seen anyone else using the same grip. It is basically a power grip, where all my finger pads are gripping the inside rim, but I stack my ring finger pad right on top of my middle finger, on top of the nail. I developed it one day when I had a bad hangnail and couldn't STAND to throw with the normal grip. All of a sudden, I gained 25% more control, I finally started getting consistent "snap", and my distance has been inching forward ever since. I can wholeheartedly recommend this grip... IF you have similar hand shape to mine. I have medium sized hands with slender fingers - musician's type hands. The thing is, your hand shape largely dictates the sort of grip that you will be able to use - again, it's one of those things like disc choice, where if it doesn't FEEL right, you probably won't be able to use it well, no matter how well it SHOULD work in theory.

My other backhand grip is a fan or fork grip. My index and pinkyare hooked under the rim, pressing the inside rim, and the two fingers in the middle are spread out underneath the disc, feeling the underside of the disc. For putts and shorter shots, those fingers are spread apart. For driving and longer upshots, those two fingers move down toward the pinky finger and sorta rest on it. I consider it slight modifications of the same grip. And that's all I do throwing backhand, those two grips - driving, second shots, putting, everything. Ken Climo recommends the Fork grip for everything, but for wide rimmed high speed drivers, it's just not a comfortable grip for me.

But then there's sidearm grips, overhand throw grips, etc.

One thing I have to stress though - that Banshee is by NO means a midrange disc. It's a very fast long range driver. It might not fly as far as some of your other discs just yet, but that's only because you don't have the power and technique that it requires. It's a VERY overstable disc, even in light weights, and overstable discs are more consistent and accurate, but they are HORRIBLE for learning with. They mask your bad technique and make you think you're doing good - then one day you start getting some snap and more power in your throws, and all of a sudden NOTHING acts right. So stay away from the banshee for right now, and get a real midrange.

Innova makes the Shark, Roc, Cobra, Stingray, Panther, Spider, Coyote, etc, and they're all great midranges that will teach you everything you need to know, and all you have to do to learn is throw them over and over till you know how they act. Once you get that flutter out of your throw, moving up to other discs will be simple. I suggest learning the Cobra now(even the cheap ones last forever) and picking up the Roc down the road. Reason being: they both have the same shape, so the switch between the two won't result in too different a feel in your hand. Gateway and Discraft make some great midranges, but I think the Innova discs are more beginner friendly, and they're always easier to find.

About the wobble - wobble, or flutter, in the early portion of a disc's flight is caused by two things.

1)off axis torque - think of the flight of your disc BEGINNING at the same time you begin to swing forward, NOT when the disc leaves your hand. If you think of putting your disc on it's flight path WHILE it's in your hand, you can see where a little jerk here or there in another direction at the last second would make a disc flutter - it's just like bumping the steering wheel of a car that's going 100mph. You want to make sure you pull through on that line from beginning to end, and work on accelerating it - be light and quick, and make sure that most of the force of the throw is put in at the very last moment.

2)the disc is moving forward too fast with too little spin on it. You said you noticed the disc flutter for a second before smoothing out? It smooths out because that flutter creates wind resistance, which in turn slows the disc down. When the disc has slowed down to the point that it stabilizes, there's enough spin on it at THAT speed. The thing is, it's been proven, that while a disc slows down a lot through it's flight, they really don't lose any spin unless they hit something - so if you throw with high RPMs, then the disc hits the ground with nearly the same spin as it started with. The faster you make the disc travel, the more spin it needs to ensure a stable(stable aerodynamically, like a plane, which is different from stable/overstable disc talk) flight. So slow your arm speed down, and try to put more spin on those throws. Also, keep your arm loose, so that your wrist cocks back from the force of pulling the disc forward - the weight of the disc in your hand should flex your wrist back toward your forearm, and then pop back forward like a slingshot effect as the disc rips from your hand. Alternately, you can try cocking your wrist back - Ken Climo advises on how much you should load your wrist in his instructional articles at kenclimo.com. See the how-to section.

One last thing - You should notice that the Banshee wobbles less than any of your other discs. That's because overstable discs like that stabilize themselves better. The bad thing is, you can throw one and not even realize you have a technique problem. That's why I advise you to put the banshee away for just a little while, till you're ready to see what it can really do.

The best way to correct flutter, without reading a bunch of boring stuff 10x longer than what I just wrote? Throw that birdie! Throw it as much as you can stand, till you are absolutely sick of throwing it. Learn how to make it go left, go right, go straight, etc. When you can throw the Birdie a good ways, in a SMOOTH manner, then you can throw ANYTHING without flutter. And GET A MIDRANGE!

[broncofan_27]

cool thanks alot, thats some good info. i appreciate it

[dg]

hey broncofan, your playing in Dallas right?

and you do realise that pretty much everyone on this forum plays in the Beaumont/Port Arthur area, east of Houston


by the way, if your playing in Dallas, have you played Audobahn, bear creek, veterans park, Jimmy Porter, or Lake Lewisville?

[fuzzy]

he is over kev's way in south tejas DG.

[broncofan_27]

when i first joined i just thought it was a tx forum, then i realized it was for the beaumont area. oh well. im still addicted and playin in corpus they just opened up another course, not the greatest but still fun.

[el-jefe]

Keep us informed on what s going on down corpus way. And let everyone know about the may 5th tourney here in Beaumont. Maybe you guys could get together with the Victoria guys and caravan over here. We could most likely find places for people to stay if they need to. We are working with Rick Banister and it will be the last lone star stop before the lss championships and will be a fundraiser to rebuild the tyrrell park course which was destroyed by Hurricane Rita.